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29 Comments

  1. Princess UnicorniaNo Gravatar says:

    Im 21 so I guess Im a younger type! Things arent that bad, Reverend Roger. The Recession is ending and people will be going back to work. Also our generation will make things better! A lot of us dont believe in the false morality and are finding a new way thats really an old way. I learned that the debt was huge but it was paid off under President Clinton. Then under President Bush America got in debt again. My generation is learing that we can’t put everything on credit. That was the mistake of the previous generation and we see the results. We will be a greener generation that will conserve and recycle. Things will get better just wait and see!

    • The Good Reverend RogerNo Gravatar says:

      “The Recession is ending and people will be going back to work.”

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

      Keep on believing, sunshine. The housing market is going to totally shit in February/March. Something to the order of 3/7 Americans will be upside down on their mortgages.

      “I learned that the debt was huge but it was paid off under President Clinton.”

      No, it wasn’t. Clinton stopped deficits for a year, he did not pay off the debt.

      “My generation is learing that we can’t put everything on credit.”

      I have seen no evidence to support that.

      “We will be a greener generation that will conserve and recycle.”

      What does that have to do with it?

      • I’m not going to predict the future of the economy here (I’ll do that on my own site), but have to agree with Roger about the national debt. I don’t think any president has paid off the national debt since the early or mid 1800s.

        What happened under President Clinton was a balanced budget, which hadn’t happened in a while, and a surplus, where the United States was taking in more money than it was paying out (essentially what Roger said about deficits stopping, and even being reversed). All that sank in the toilet shortly after George. W. Bush was elected.

        I have read, however, that many young people are beginning to question the wisdom of getting heavily into debt. If the fallout from the Recession continues, there may be something of a return to the savings mode and deferred gratification of the Great Depression. There’s also been increasing regulation against wooing young college students to get a free T-shirt if they get a credit card, and other “free deals.”

        The 13-digit debt is getting close to 14 digits, but that’s not necessarily the problem people think it is. The vast majority of the people who are making money off of it are Americans and American agencies, not foreign governments. And if you compare the debt to the size of America’s economy, the debt ratio is actually fairly low compared to much of the world.

    • EldoraNo Gravatar says:

      Part of your problem is that we have been in a recession for as long as you’ve been alive, depending on where you live. We are now in a depression. Losing ‘only’ 500,000 jobs a month is not an improvement. Things aren’t getting better, they are getting worse. The official unemployment rate is based on the people collecting unemployment. Thank you Obama for the extensions, more than I have ever seen, more than we got in the 1980s. But even people that are working, ‘back to work’, many are at part time jobs because big corporations are cutting costs by cutting benefits. Part timers don’t getting any benefits. Working 2 or 3 jobs to make as much as you used to and paying for your own health insurance is not an improvment.

      People are abandoning theirs homes because they can’t afford to pay for them. This includes trailors, homes on wheels, people are abandoning them. Of course I live in Flint, where in the 1980′s, when you were in diapers, we had bumper stickers like:

      Last one out of Michigan turn off the lights

      Hungry, out of work, eat your rice burner

      I guess I had better explain that last one. See in the 1970′s there was an ‘energy shortage’, that whirring sound is Einstein rolling in his grave at light speed, but that’s for another time. See, people decided that Japanese cars were better because that had better gas milage. Never mind that you would have to drive the caer for about 20 or 30 or more yearss to break even. So, to those who made a living building American cars, well, they were a little pissed off to see so many Japanese cars on the road. The Term ‘rice burners’ was the most polite thing they could put on the bumper stickers. Go watch Grand Turino for some prospective. “Get off my lawn”

      That’s also when the ‘big 3′ decided if people would pay that much for a ofreign car, they would pay that much for an American car and car prices went up in the Sates for no good reason. The truck we bought in 1997, well, suddenly with the car companies going broke, ack, the trucks are now selling for the same price. Probably partly because they took all the crap out that doesn’t belong in a truck any way. Like a CD changer.

      Being green was popular in the 1970′s too. Guess what happened to that? The big oil companies bought up all the patents for things like solar energy and such like. So unless you own a house, which requires going into debt, then get a windmill, costs about $800, probably also put you into debt, then make sure you have about an acre of land for a garden, then be sure to compost, do you know how smelly compost is? Recycling is green, I’ll grant you that. But I am guessing that is all you do. Prove me wrong.

      We are in a depression, the stock market crashed, only nobody noticed. Look at yahoo finance and compare a stock from the late 1990′s to today. Think about the people that had their life savings there. Google Enron. The Dow went down because the index is based on the best stocks, so when something tanks they replace it with something better. They ran out of better stocks.

      Every time I think I am being paranoid I find I am no where near paranoid enough. I don’t usually agree with TGRR, but you need to pull your head out of your ass. Every generation thinks they will do better and they usually do worse. The Love-In hippies of the 1960′s are in charge now, are things better? Not so much.

    • The Good Reverend RogerNo Gravatar says:

      Yeah, so that recession ending? HOW’S THAT WORKING OUT FOR YOU, SPARKY?

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

  2. Professor CramulusNo Gravatar says:

    “Yes, the fact is that either way, the post-holocaust nihilism of The Road Warrior may turn out to be idiotically optimistic. You younger types will most likely spend your lives in a cube, PRAYING that a horde of berserk bikers would come along and kill you, because then at least your torment would be over.”

    That was the most concise summary of my week that I’ve ever read.

  3. balto the forever irritatedNo Gravatar says:

    I couldn’t have asked for a better warning. What I learned today is, become a beserk biker. They’ve got it best. FUCK YOUR WOULD BE CUBE. Take a deadly martial art. Krav madga is good. Study the SAS survival guide until you can recite it from memory. GET A MACHETE. steal a motorcycle. BECOME FUCKING CRAZY. The end.

  4. Contradictor-GeneralNo Gravatar says:

    People always think the world is going to end and they’re always proven wrong. Throughout history, the overall trend has been improvement in every way. Better lives for more people, more people who realize the “evils” of the world, and so on. There are always steps back but somehow people find a way to take more steps forward. Anything about the present you think is oh-so-horrible is kittens and rainbows compared to the past. Don’t be angry at the world just because your favorite 70s band isn’t popular anymore.

    • Caitlin ReidNo Gravatar says:

      Contradictor-General, you are an idiot. I’ll let people better at writing than me explain the “why” of it, but it is Truth.

    • The Good Reverend RogerNo Gravatar says:

      Missing the point, ITT.

    • Elle the FeyNo Gravatar says:

      C-G:
      You believe that the present is an improvement on the past, but what is your basis for such a conclusion? have things improved so much in your lifetime that you can personally testify to this? And even so, that’s only a single person’s arc of experience and does not necessarily hold true for everyone else. That is inductive reasoning- generally known to predict patterns only when it gets lucky.

      But perhaps you are making a statement based on a longer history that you have not personally experienced. So are you trusting in the written history presented to you by textbooks, authors with their own agendas? THEY want you to think that life is better now than it has ever been before. Sure we don’t have widespread plague, but we sure DO still have lots of deadly diseases out there, take cancer and hiv alone for examples. And maybe YOU have a guaranteed roof over your head every night, but crunch some numbers and you’ll find that there are a large percentage of people who don’t always have the basic necessities.

      In fact, things are perhaps worse now, not because of all this, but because of the severe restrictions to our freedom. A thousand years ago a person without shelter could have crashed in their neighbors barn without fear of being discovered and shot on sight, or arrested and taken to jail. A person could break the arbitrary laws of society and just choose to leave that society for another so long as their feet will carry them. Today we need passports and money and credit cards and predetermined status just to drive to canada. And even then we are being tracked and watched by multiple government agencies who only haven’t found ME because of their own incompetence.

      In short I am angry at the world for trying to inflict an unwanted absolute control over everything that I do and making it impossible for me to be free. I will take the consequences of any free action, but why should there be certain consequences in the first place? Who has the right to tell me who I can and can’t love? Who has the right to tell me I can’t have a roof over my head even though there are tons of abandoned houses in my neighborhood?

      I guess that wasn’t a really short conclusion…but you get the point.

      • Contradictor-GeneralNo Gravatar says:

        Caitlin, perhaps you should try writing a response after all, as Elle is not doing a very good job of representing anybody.

        And Roger, are you talking to me or Caitlin there? If me, please explain what point I’m missing. (I don’t mean that in a confrontational manner, I do have a tendency to miss points and waste time arguing completely unrelated issues.)

        Now, as for your “arguments”, Elle…

        First off, there’s no reason to point out that I haven’t personally experienced all of history- neither have you, or anyone else. Perhaps it’s just your life that’s bad? Same with “THEM” and history books. If all the books are wrong, we’re both equally likely to be right or wrong. Despite the efforts of the various propaganda industries, it’s quite easy to seperate fact from fiction if you’re careful and make sure to think logically. And my own life has little to do with this. I’m not talking about anyone’s individual lives- I’m talking about humanity as a whole.

        I’m not denying that there’s a LOT wrong with the world, and that in some places, it may, yes, be much worse than it was in the past. Many third world countries exploited by the West come to mind. And no, to address Reverend Loveshade’s below point, I’m not just going to claim that significant improvement in the lives of people elsewhere “makes up for it” somehow. Rather, my main “basis” for my claim is the fnord continual and inevitable increase in technology, knowledge, and awareness of social issues. In the past, nobody cared when Western nations exploited Africa and other such places. Now, there are large and influential movements all across the world working to end the exploitation of the third world, who are gaining influence every day. Even if I were to concede that in many ways the world is worse than it used to be, the fact that there are people actively working to improve it means that we actually have a chance to make the world a decent place to live. The continual improvement of technology is part of this. Regardless of whether the world is more or less broken than at some point in the past, we now have the tools to fix it. We just need to wake up and use them.

        Furthermore, you’re dead wrong in claiming that THEY (assuming you mean the media, govt, etc.) never, ever, EVER want you to think the world is good. They want you to think the world is pure evil and out to get you, and that THEY are the only ones who can protect you. Go turn on the TV and watch all the talking heads complain about how the gays/socialists/muslims/whatever are destroying “American values” and how we need to go back to the “old ways”.

        And really, you think there are more severe restrictions on “freedom” now than before? Because you need a passport to get into Canada? Are you not aware that you are posting up anti-establishment rhetoric in a completely public space…with absolutely no consequences whatsoever? Really, not trying to be offensive, but you sound like an ignorant highschool promoting “anarchism” without really understanding anything. Again, as before, there are certainly unwarranted impositions of freedom these days, but again, there are also people out to put a stop to it. It’s good to be angry about these things, but don’t lose sight of reality.

        One final thing, exactly what is your ideal past time period? If the world’s been getting worse, when did it start going downhill? Or was it from the very beginning? I’m down for anarcho-primitivism philosophically speaking, although it’s kind of a meaningless thought experiment at this point. (Oh wow, did I just come along through an infinite torus of self-reflexivism back to the Reverend’s weird Road Warrior fantasy? WHOAH.)

        (Road Warrior is also propaganda by the way.)

        Now, that was a lot of words, can we drop the seriousness now? There appears to be an emergent pattern of dust in the air in the vague form of a goddess’s face glaring quite angrily at me.

  5. Like all comparisons, whether things are better or worse depends on what you’re comparing.

    Let’s say you live in 21st century Europe. Changes are you live in a home, have some form of medical benefits, are free to and can afford to travel from country to country, can eat your choice of food from around the world, if you have a legal dispute can be represented in a court based on law, and will live to be in your late 70s or early 80s.

    Let’s say you live in 14th century Europe. Changes are you live in a shack, have no medical benefits, cannot leave the small piece of land you’re living on without permission or otherwise you’ll get beaten or even killed, can eat only what’s available on your landlord’s property, if you have a legal dispute have virtually no rights and can be thrown on the street or even killed without recourse, and will live to be about 40.

    • Rev. BootieNo Gravatar says:

      I live in 14th century Europe. I’m a king. I live pretty damn good.

    • Lord S the MadNo Gravatar says:

      I was under the probably mistaken impression that legal recourse was available to people in the time of 14th century Europe; variously, the methods used to summonse and argue points of law were the “dirk,” “bow,” and something called a “shiv.”

      I don’t know that much about ancient law, obviously, but I’m pretty sure Ambrose Bierce also referred to these as implements of the legal profession, and, as in all such matters, I’ll defer to his probably true, false, and meaningless wisdom.

      • You’re right. I chose the 14th century for a reason; it’s the first full century after the Magna Carta, which gave the European individual some rights. The Renaissance was going, the Middle Class was germinating, and things were getting better for the average person.

        But it’s also the century of:

        The Hundred Years’ War, when fighters bragged about killing lots of people because that was a matter of honor.

        The Great Famine, which killed millions of people.

        The Black Death, which killed about one out of every three people.

        People such as the Templars were tortured and burned to death–in accordance with the law.

        Three men recognized as Pope simultaneously. (OK, so maybe that part was cool).

        Now, when a war goes on for five or six years, people complain about it going on too long and work to end it–then the killing could go on for a hundred years.

        Now, there’s famines in a few poor parts of the world–in those days, famine was going on almost everywhere.

        Now, if a new disease kills one out of every 100,000 people, people freak out–then, it was one out of three.

        Now, if you assert a belief in a religion other than Roman Catholicism, you’re accepted–then, you get ostracized and maybe tortured and executed.

        To me, that’s better.

    • EldoraNo Gravatar says:

      That means large parts of the United States are turning into 14th century Europe. That explains a lot. We have better weapons. S-Mart boom boom guns for one thing.

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