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27 Comments

  1. Professor CramulusNo Gravatar says:

    And yet rather than charting a new course, you are content to try and take the wind of out others sails. If you wish the Discordian Society to grow in a certain way, get off your ass and go start that energy, start that fun project, lead by example. Don’t just sit by the sidelines and tell everybody they’re doing it wrong.

    Speaking as one of the BIP authors/editors addressed in this piece – I’m not really concerned with whether or not the BIP appeals to everybody. It will resonate with some people, and that’s good enough. I discovered the original BIP pamphlet when I was in a very dark place, and it helped me a great deal. I was refreshed that somebody was doing something with the “Discordia” meme which wasn’t yet another rehash of the Principia Discordia.

    The PD is awesome, don’t get me wrong, but it’s not the final word about Discordia. We all get to choose what Discordia means for ourselves. There’s a large contingent of the Discordian Society which wants all Discordian output to be friendly, zany, and hilarious. I love that stuff too, and if you love it, you should write some. But spare the rest of us the judgment about how we’re “doing it wrong”. Eris is broader than that. Fuck what you “know” about Chaos.

    I’ve been posting excerpts from the BIP every week. Do you know why I keep publishing essays from the same pamphlet? It’s because there’s little else to post. There is barely any NEW energy in the Discordian Society. If there were other pamphlets and booklets out there, I’d happily be posting them for everybody to read.

    My goal here at 23ae is to showcase the new energy in the Discordian Society. If your cabal does pranks in 3D Meatspace, take some pics and send ‘em to me. If you write an issue of Intermittens, let me know, I will help you distribute it. I want to help everybody find co-conspirators for their pranks and projects. And if your creative output happens to be a “dark” piece about how to pull yourself out of a funk, I’m not going to tell you to fuck off just because your piece won’t resonate with everybody.

    • the other anonymousNo Gravatar says:

      First, you said:

      Do you know why I keep publishing essays from the same pamphlet? It’s because there’s little else to post.

      after saying:

      If you wish the Discordian Society to grow in a certain way, get off your ass and go start that energy, start that fun project, lead by example.

      Second, I said:

      “Only the INTAKE of knowledge and experience can fuel our inner light.”

      which means:

      Stop posting! To paraphrase that old song: There’ll be time enough for writing when the living’s done.

      Finally, you said:

      We all get to choose what Discordia means for ourselves.

      This is a lie. Words are part of language. Language is for communication. This requires agreement. The name of a concept like Discordia has only the meaning agreed upon — by Discordians and non-Discordians alike. Right now, I’m facing a situation where “Discordia” is going the way of “Liberal” or “Feminist”: everybody who uses it thinks it means a bunch of stuff that it doesn’t. “Liberal” means “un-American socialist faggot.” “Feminist” means “Female Supremacist.” And “Discordian” means “Hate-Mongering Post-Modernist Morons.”

      Excuse me for recognizing the necessary Order of language, rather than spewing some nonsense about subjectivity and Chaos.

      • Professor CramulusNo Gravatar says:

        I’m sorry that you think everybody but you is a moron, but you STILL don’t get to pick what Discordia means to me.

        • the other anonymousNo Gravatar says:

          First, I acknowledge my moronicity and struggle with it daily. For example, I have no idea what that paragraph about Liberals and Feminists means or why I wrote it.

          The problem here is the Self-Affirming Bias. Everybody thinks they’re better than everyone else, which leads to the odd corollary that anybody who claims to not have this bias is doing so because they think having this bias is bad. I’m still stuck in the early phase of accepting that I’m just like everyone else — but only to prove that I’m better than the people who deny their bias. ;)

          As for picking what Discordia means to you, fine, whatever. Just don’t be surprised when you run into someone who is convinced Discordians are “the devil” and will accuse you of all kinds of shit. (For example, someone who believes you do the kind of stuff that the Loveshades were only rumored to have done.)

          At some point, what you (and I) think of as Discordia simply stops being Discordia and becomes something much more personal. At that point, we’ll both need new words. Until then, I have the right to influence our language and eachother. I may not get to pick what Discordia means to you, but I do get to tell people what it means to me.

  2. ENKI-][No Gravatar says:

    You’ve got a point — the BIP is more negative than most effective pamphlets (Discordian and otherwise). It probably scares away plenty of people — that isn’t the target audience (and, of course, your comment that the “target audience doesn’t exist” is, IMO, bullshit — whomever the pamphlet appeals to has been successfully targeted, regardless of whether or not their self-image meshes with your image of them; a fallacy like this should be below you).

    That said, likewise, the BIP has no reason to be the only kid on the block. Critiques of the BIP are useful, but not nearly as useful as new work. You have the capacity to post here. Write something illustrating what you would rather be reading, and post it — it will do a lot more good than posting polemics against existing documents.

    • the other anonymousNo Gravatar says:

      Fallacies are how we think. The best arguments contain many well-placed fallacies. But you’re right. If you noticed it, I didn’t do it right.

      As for writing something I’d rather be reading: My polemic was filled with humor, politics, and a rallying cry for a better life and a more peaceful world. This is what I’d rather be reading!

      (Discordia does attract eccentrics, you know.)

      • Professor CramulusNo Gravatar says:

        I’m really enjoying the irony here. When others express themselves using negativity or aggression, it is angsty, masturbatory, whiney, immature, and badwrong. When you do it, it’s a humorous rallying cry for peace.

        • the other anonymousNo Gravatar says:

          That’s not irony. the word you’re looking for is “hypocrisy.”

          Furthermore, others do it because they are angsty, masturbatory, whiney, immature, and badwrong. I’m just doing it for fun.

          And by claiming to “mock them with a straight face,” I’m claiming to be ironic.

          And that’s why the word “irony” was invented — to act as an escape hatch for hypocrites. ;)

  3. The Right Reverend NigelNo Gravatar says:

    I didn’t help write and haven’t read the BIP. I will, however, say this: For a project that is several years old, it seems to engender strong emotions in people, including the author of this post. I have non-Discordian friends in their 30′s and 40′s who read it and found it enlightening… maybe not every part, but enough parts. I disagree that the target audience doesn’t exist, I simply think it may not be who you are imagining it is.

    I also think that if you want something to happen, you have to do it yourself. If you have a vision, lead the way, because you can’t force your vision into other people’s heads and make them your leaders. Complaining because other people did something, but didn’t do the thing you would have done (if you were going to do anything), is simply unproductive.

    My suggestion is to stop harping on what other people actually DID, and GO DO SOMETHING YOURSELF.

    • the other anonymousNo Gravatar says:

      This is the second suggestion that I write something myself.

      And the second time I’ll say:

      “Only the INTAKE of knowledge and experience can fuel our inner light.”

      Being un/productive is not what this is about. It’s about logging off, shutting up, and living fully.

      It’s kind of a net.suicide note disguised as a manifesto hidden in a book review, except without the manifesto or the suicide.

      All this feedback is making me think a revision is in order.

  4. BAINo Gravatar says:

    I’ve not seen any produce from TOA’s corner since the 90′s :/ way to snipe chief. way to snipe.

  5. Interesting post! At the very least it seems to have got people talking. To be fair, there is a use for criticism and commentary– its not nothing– but I have to echo some of the comments above, that there are more effective ways to bring about the sort of change you seem to be looking for, TOA. Like Cram said, there are never enough projects going around, and there is a glut of criticism.

    You say “In the next collaborative project, let’s bring back Fun” and that sounds like a great idea! So I hereby nominate the other anonymous as the next editor of INTERMITTENS, and I fully hope that it will be the most fun, funny, irrational and enlightening issue yet! Do you accept the challenge?

  6. Rev. BootieNo Gravatar says:

    BIP is we’re all in a prison, we can’t ever leave, we’re all going to die, so you might as well paint the walls a nice color.

    I liked it better when it was called Existentialism.

    • the other anonymousNo Gravatar says:

      I prefer Situationism.

      In the next collaborative project, let’s bring back Fun. [...] let us laugh in Joyful Abandon, [...] And let us do away with trying to enlighten others — we can only ever enlighten ourselves.

      Which is just an apparently obscure way of saying: stop writing about life and starting living it.

      I need to practice my writing skills. It seems I’m a bit rusty.

    • the other anonymousNo Gravatar says:

      Thank you. it’s nice to know some people can appreciate a critique without acting like they’re being insulted. (Of course, I probably failed in avoiding insult.)

  7. The Right Reverend NigelNo Gravatar says:

    There is irony in them thar hills.

  8. One time when the movie reviewers Gene Siskel and Roger Ebert were doing one of their many TV shows, Ebert mentioned that he’d written a screenplay (it was for )Beyond the Valley of the Dolls.”) Siskel criticized Ebert for having written it, because Siskel felt you couldn’t function objectively as a reviewer if you were in the field you were reviewing.

    Great editors can be mediocre writers; and a great fire prevention expert may never have set a house on fire. They’re different fields. It’s like saying no one can help a woman give birth who hasn’t had a baby, and no doctor can treat a dog unless he is a dog.

    • the other anonymousNo Gravatar says:

      Yes, but is it possible to suck at both writing and editing?

      • theravenhidesNo Gravatar says:

        in fact yes. i do believe so. for you see. I suck at not only both writing and editing, but also verbal communication and logic in general. this is only my thought. I do not consider myself a discordian in any manner. In fact it seems to me that the discordians are probably just another whimsical addition to the Illuminati’s massive out reach. Now i don’t know this for a fact. But all i know is that in order for something to work there has to be the right amount of people saying it doesn’t work for the people who think it does to HATE the others and start a war. controversy. not that it is nessecarily bad. (by the way when i say “i know” it means more like “i thought one time”) But imagine where both the “right” and “wrong” are both completely bullhonky. where does that leave me? or anyone really? Inspiring doubt in people. i couldn’t encourage it more! doubt is what lets us learn.
        I myself am a lone alpha male that has nothing better to do than what was said in the article. but i’m weird. and there is good reason for it. basically through all this ranting and words. Is this really helping or is this only furthering their work? and how could we really help? is there really a way. I read BIP. i thought it was good. and i thought it was singly the most inspiring piece i’ve read in a while. but others i have shown it to thought it was stupid and they didn’t understand it. so what can really be done?

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