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Archspag Bobby Wilson says it better than I could:

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13 Comments

  1. el sjaakoNo Gravatar says:

    Well his argument is sound unfortunately for him, I don’t agree with his definitions.

    Basically he’s saying that if you aren’t a clear cut believer in some kind of god, you are per definition an atheist. In that case, it’s true that you are either an atheist or a believer. This isn’t really a useful position, because it puts the Dawkins followers in the same box as those that can’t decide or think that the whole issue isn’t worth the effort (and thus don’t believe in a god).

    • Professor CramulusNo Gravatar says:

      Yeah, I think his language is too Aristotelian. You don’t have to believe in something. And a lack of belief in something =/= rigid disbelief.

      I do not believe in anthropomorphic creation forces, but I am not an atheist. I think that when we contemplate the infinite, we are hitting the limits of our language and understanding. You can’t paint a picture of an experience any more than you can describe the ineffable with our mewling little syllables.

    • chuckNo Gravatar says:

      It reminds me of those online political quizzes that are pretty much designed to convince you that you’re a libertarian just because you don’t want politicians to totally run everything.

  2. everyotherNo Gravatar says:

    Haven’t even finished the video yet, but I gotta say, QUIT SWITCHING CAMERA ANGLES.

  3. I believe in God and Goddess but I don’t think we can really know what they are. Sometimes I feel I don’t even know who I am! So how can I define something that’s so broad? I can only say how I feel and see things but really that’s all anyone can do.

  4. DrOwlNo Gravatar says:

    I believe only in not believing. I have been told that I can not but non of the things I here see or touch have managed to convince me they are anything other then me, or that me is me.

  5. I’m not sure if he’s really going for the black and white thinking. He seems to be hedging, I guess to avoid offending too many of his agnostic listeners. Or maybe because he’s a little agnostic in es atheism?

    Robert Anton Wilson tried to be agnostic in all things, and I think that’s a valid model.

    But none of this will matter soon as the Rapture happens. I doubt I’ll be going, so I thought we could have a Post Rapture Party.

  6. ENKI-2No Gravatar says:

    I’ve had arguments with ‘atheists’ who ape this same argument. It tends to come down to a faith in logical positivism, and the assumption that there is a ‘default’ position. This is a sticky idea in any context, and I argue against it at length, but it’s particularly sticky in the context of theism since depending upon who you ask (and, if you have a time machine, when in history you ask them) when you ask them, the most reasonable or default position on whether or not a creator deity exists outside of the context of any dogma is different. While Jefferson leans toward agnosticism, many of his social group were deistic — which is to say, while they did not consider the rest of any given religious system reasonable, they thought it was a fair assumption that there was at least a creator deity to set the machinery into motion. During this time period, this was not unheard of, even within the scientific community (which may well have been the influence of Newton, who himself was a bit of a religious crackpot but who through assumptions made in his work on the movement of astronomical bodies popularized the deistic idea in the cosmological context). To someone with skewed ideas about probability and complexity, “an invisible man with magic powers did it” can very well seem far more likely than “over a period of billions of years, due to countless lucky accidents, it happened by itself”.

    This is a pet peeve with me, of course, but more annoying is that these same people (in my experience) have a terribly hard time understanding what agnosis is and how anyone could possibly have such a quality.

  7. AnonymousNo Gravatar says:

    I have to correct you momentarily. The “gaseous vertebrate” comment was borrowed from Crowley who used it in his “Yoga for Yahoos.”

    • Professor CramulusNo Gravatar says:

      I have to correct you momentarily. The full quote in the post is actually a Wilson quote, not a Crowley quote. :P

      • I have to correct you momentarily. “Yoga for Yahoos” could not have been written until after the existence of the web service Yahoo. This was invented in 1994 by two college students. http://docs.yahoo.com/info/misc/history.html

        The book Gulliver’s Travels by Lemuel Gulliver was later published as an account of Gulliver’s travels through the Internet. He stole the term “Yahoo” from the web service to mean a base form of humans–he hated Yahoo. He was consequently sued by the corporation for an unspecified amount. This money was then used to fund the 2010 film Gulliver’s Travels. Let’s please keep our facts straight.

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