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Buy Cozaar Without Prescription, The following came at the end (and I do mean crawling and choking on it's own blood end) of a 10 page thread arguing Free-Will/Determinism. I saw so many people talking past each other because of personal definitions of the terms that I thought I'd try to salvage the conversation. It almost worked, Cozaar without a prescription, but I think people were too exhausted to do anything except integrate the new info. The response is behind the Cut.


Ok, so since we have people here who are barely familiar with the argument, Cozaar schedule, I'll lay out some etymology and terms.

The whole free-will/determinism language basically stems from a radical philosophy response during the 'Enlightenment' era to the prevailing dogma of the "Geocentric Crystal Spheres of the Creator God" theory/model of the Solar System/Universe refined by the church from Antiquity to the Renaissance (shades of the Egg of Mithras model), Buy Cozaar Without Prescription.

Hold on folks.... Cozaar used for, The Celestial Spheres:

The celestial spheres, or celestial orbs, were the fundamental entities of the cosmological models developed by Plato, Eudoxus, Cozaar trusted pharmacy reviews, Aristotle, Ptolemy, Cozaar price, coupon, Copernicus and others. In these celestial models the stars and planets are carried around by being embedded in rotating spheres made of an aetherial transparent fifth element (quintessence), like jewels set in orbs.

In the geocentric model adopted in the Middle Ages, buy Cozaar from canada, the planetary spheres (i.e. Buy Cozaar Without Prescription, those that contained planets) were arranged outwards from the spherical, stationary Earth at the centre of the universe in this order: the spheres of the Moon, Mercury, Venus, Sun, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn. In more detailed models the seven planetary spheres contained other secondary spheres within them. Purchase Cozaar online no prescription, The planetary spheres were followed by the stellar sphere containing the fixed stars; other scholars added a ninth sphere to account for the precession of the equinoxes, a tenth to account for the supposed trepidation of the equinoxes, and even an eleventh to account for the changing obliquity of the ecliptic.

In modern science, online buy Cozaar without a prescription, the orbits of the planets are simply the paths of those planets through mostly empty space. For medieval scholars, Herbal Cozaar, on the other hand, celestial spheres were actually thick spheres of rarefied matter nested one within the other, each one in complete contact with the sphere above it and the sphere below.  When scholars applied Ptolemy's epicycles, they presumed that each planetary sphere was exactly thick enough to accommodate them, Buy Cozaar Without Prescription.  Combining this information with astronomical observations allowed scholars to calculate that the distance to the far edge of Saturn (or to the inside of the stellar sphere) was 73, Cozaar gel, ointment, cream, pill, spray, continuous-release, extended-release,387,747 miles.

Ok, Cozaar dosage, so here's a secret. Most Mythology is humanity projecting onto things in the universe that they can't understand.

[caption id="" align="alignright" width="250"]Poor Ned. Haha, only serious.[/caption]

We do this because as soon as we project part of our 'self' out there we can have some degree of control more than blind non-understanding, order Cozaar from mexican pharmacy.

This theory was codified into Western culture by the Greeks (remember the 'indigestion' and "The classical Greeks did not influence the classical Greeks" quotes?). Buy Cozaar Without Prescription, The Greeks actually calculated the circumference of the earth pretty darn accurately and got a lot right. The Greeks inherited the legacy of the Babylonians  and developed the science of astronomy. Real brand Cozaar online, By the second century A.D., they had covered most of the main branches of astronomy: They knew what caused and could predict eclipses, they had charted planets, cataloged stars, Cozaar for sale, observed novae, and discovered precession. Cheap Cozaar no rx, They had discovered the Earth was spherical (though that knowledge was lost later), and that it moved around the sun (though that model grew out of favor).

Some excerpts from an article on the Greeks:

Thales probably believed in a spherical Earth; Pythagoras and Plato did, as well, order Cozaar from United States pharmacy. However, though Aristotle was grossly incorrect in his model of the universe, he must be given credit for the first study of scientific geography, Buy Cozaar Without Prescription. He gave three reasons for his thinking:

  1. Only a sphere could result from the tendency of matter to fall together toward a common center.

  2. Only a sphere could through the circular shadow which we always see during a lunar eclipse.

  3. Only on the surface of a sphere would a traveler going from North to South see new constellations rising above the horizon on (s)he moved.

.......The Geocentric model held so much sway because of many of the philosophies of the ancient Greeks. They believed that the circle is the perfect form, Taking Cozaar, and that the simplest model that made sense must be the correct one. Since they "knew" the heavens were perfect, everything must move upon a circle, and since the simplest model was that the Earth stood still and everything moved around it, Cozaar treatment, then that must also be true. After all, Fast shipping Cozaar, we can't feel the Earth moving, so why should be believe that it does without any extraordinary evidence. Buy Cozaar Without Prescription, There's one problem with the Geocentric model and it had to do with the motion of the planets. For periods of time, the planets seem to orbit in an eastward direction across the stars, low dose Cozaar. However, for brief periods of time, Cozaar canada, mexico, india, they switch and go in a westward direction. This is called retrograde.


Plato taught that the movements, occultations, conjunctions, etc, Buy Cozaar Without Prescription. of the sky were all calculable, order Cozaar online overnight delivery no prescription, and they only frightened those who could not "work a sum." However, he did complain that the heavenly bodies did not always use good sense. Cozaar from canadian pharmacy, He was sure that their movements could be understood, and if they did not make sense then it was the theory that was at fault, not the heavenly bodies.

This lead him to eventually accept the theory that the Earth might not be at the center of the universe, Cozaar photos, and he wrote "the Earth, our nurse, Cozaar samples, goes to and fro on its axis, which stretches right through the universe." In Plato's school, the theory enjoyed a long life, and it was one of his followers that hit upon the heliocentric - sun-centered - model, Cozaar reviews. Unfortunately, Plato's greatest pupil, Cozaar street price, Aristotle (384-322 B.C.), disagreed. Buy Cozaar Without Prescription, Aristotle's heavy scientific words contrasted with light and eloquent phrases from Plato, and they tipped the balance in the favor of geocentrism. It would take nearly 2000 years before main-stream thought returned to heliocentric ideas.

With a geocentric model, cheap Cozaar, one must explain the apparent wandering of the planets in some way. Credit for the theory of concentric crystal spheres with epicycles (spheres upon spheres) and eccentricities is given to Eudoxus, Cozaar from mexico, but it reached the highest stage of development in the hands of Claudius Ptolemy of Alexandria.

Around A.D. 150, the Greek astronomer Ptolemy (left) (A.D, Buy Cozaar Without Prescription. 85-165) - the last of the great Greek scientists - solidified the geocentric model, elaborating and formalizing the view in a manner that closely approximated the movements of the sun and planets, where can i order Cozaar without prescription. In Ptolemy's model of the universe, Earth was in a center sphere, Cozaar dangers, surrounded by eight other spheres, which were, in order, the moon, buy cheap Cozaar no rx, Mercury, Venus, Buying Cozaar online over the counter, the sun, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Cozaar long term, and then the "fixed stars." The idea was absorbed by Arabs and portrayed under the name of "Ptolemaic."

[caption id="" align="alignleft" width="250"]jinn Angels are Jinn who have surrendered their will to Allah/YHWH.[/caption]

So the whole point was that they couldn't quite figure out how to make the "wandering stars" fit into their math, and it pissed them off. Online buying Cozaar, These things had seemingly "free will" and thus earned god-titles and reputations. This re-occurs in most mythology about the planets, especially if it isn't known that the Morning Star and the Evening Star are the same heavenly body. Buy Cozaar Without Prescription, Earlier Greeks did not realize what the planets were, but were quite disdainful towards them. They were referred to as "tramp stars, Cozaar results," which is our word for "planets." Homer wrote of the morning and evening star (Venus) by two separate names, "Phospheros" and "Hesperos" -- he never knew that they were the same planet. Online buying Cozaar hcl, It was Pythagoras in 550 B.C. who discovered that Phospheros and Hesperos were the same.

Early Islam shares that confusion, as noted in the wikipedia entry on Satan:

According to the Qur'an, buy Cozaar no prescription, Iblis (the Arabic name used) disobeyed an order from Allah to bow to Adam and as a result was forced out of heaven and given respite until the day of judgment from further punishment.

When Allah commanded all of the angels to bow down before Adam (the first Human), Iblis, full of hubris and jealousy, refused to obey God's command (he could do so because, as a jinn, he had free will), seeing Adam as being inferior in creation due to his being created from clay as compared to him (created of fire), Buy Cozaar Without Prescription.

"It is We Who created you and gave you shape; then We bade the angels prostrate to Adam, No prescription Cozaar online, and they prostrate; not so Iblis (Lucifer); He refused to be of those who prostrate."
(Allah) said: "What prevented thee from prostrating when I commanded thee?" He said: "I am better than he: Thou didst create me from fire, and him from clay."

Qur'an 7:11-12

Lucifer, of course, means Morning Star, ordering Cozaar online. I love the identification of the stars as Jinn fire-beings with free will, and the Angels as fire-beings with free will that have surrendered it to Allah. Then along comes this punk Lucifer (the morning-star) and says "Fuck this, I do what I want. Sometimes I go backwards in the sky JUST TO FUCK WITH THE HUMANS."

Venus had a similar reputation, dig. Buy Cozaar Without Prescription, How the hell could you describe the path of a body across the sky mathematically if you don't recognize it half the time when it shows up. Those rogue-star fuckers are obviously "allowed" to wander from the ineffable clockwork plan of the Divine Watchmaker.

So all of this history bubbles up into the Renaissance Catholic Church as the "Ptolemnaic Geocentrism with Crystal Spheres" model of the Solar System.

And then some wise-ass in the church asks, "A'hyuk, well then what makes those immense solid spheres go round and round-y?" and some other fount of ignorance responds, "Well, GOD's WILL mannifest as physical FORCE. At the beggining of time, he just PUSHED everything and the Holy Spirit maintains the momentum."

And then oh shit, if everything in the universe that we can approach mathematically is a manifestation of God's Will and Glory unfolding into the visible universe, then it's all PRE-DETERMINED.

But, but, but Lucifer had FREE WILL!, the Qu'ran tells me so, and Adam had FREE WILL, the Bible tells me so, and those fucking PLANETS, Buy Cozaar Without Prescription. have free will, the astronomers tell us so [Fuck you and your heliocentrism, Copernicus. I like my model cuz' it's mine. We's gonna kills you, boy!].

This thread is mired in Cartesean Duality.*

Remember this the next time you see some-one spitting and screaming about Free-Will/Determinism: The model is so out dated, it make you seem crazier than the Cargo Cultists.

[caption id="" align="alignnone" width="300"]Cargo Cults Cargo Cults[/caption]

We welcome the return of John Frum and his CARGO!!!!!!!!!!.

[caption id="" align="alignnone" width="277"]Cargo Cult Plane Cargo Cult Plane[/caption]

*[The same premise that underlies the Crystal Sphere model (that God acts as an imminent yet immaterial source of motive force for matter) also underlies the mind/body split (that the mind is an imminent yet immaterial source of motive force for the body) which is the source of all of the Free-Will/Determinism confusion and yelling. Personally, I don't think these models represent what happens in Reality in the least. The math fits, but the underlying premise leads to delusion.].

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